Interview: INDIA bloc cannot be strong if Congress is weak, says Jairam Ramesh on five state polls

A. Every election is a very significant moment for a political party. Especially for a political party that is on the comeback trail. We have had a string of reverses and we don’t occupy the dominant, hegemonic position in Indian politics that we used to. We won Himachal and Karnataka handsomely. We are expecting to do exceedingly well in four states — Chhattisgarh, Madhya Pradesh, Rajasthan, and Telangana. Mizoram is a small state and has 40 seats, but there are three parties of which two are regional. I am a little cautious as far as Mizoram is concerned.

In Chhattisgarh and Rajasthan — the two states where we are in power — through the work of our governments over the last five years and the strength of the guarantees that we are offering to people, I can say fairly confidently that we are returning to power. In two states where we aren’t in power and are in the Opposition — Madhya Pradesh and Telangana — we again are confident that the sentiment is very much against the parties in power because the promises made by them have simply not been fulfilled. So I am looking at a “4-0” result for Congress in these four states.

On the Road: Telangana dithers between yearning for change, fear of instability

Q. Have efforts on building the INDIA bloc taken a backseat due to these elections? That is the criticism against the Congress by your own allies. 

A. I wouldn’t say it has taken a backseat, but frankly speaking, the two dominant parties in three poll-bound states were the BJP and the Congress — in Madhya Pradesh, Chhattisgarh and Rajasthan — and in Telangana, it is the Congress and the BRS. Our entire attention, and the energy of the leadership, workers, and organisation, were focused on these elections. It is exceedingly critical for us, and we believe that the results of these elections will actually strengthen the INDIA bloc. The INDIA bloc cannot be strengthened with a weak Congress. If people assume that the Congress space should shrink so that the INDIA space can increase, that’s a completely mistaken and unacceptable notion for the Congress party. 

Q. Was it disappointing that only the DMK backed you and not other alliance partners in these elections?

A. There is no presence of the INDIA parties (in these states). The TMC (Trinamool Congress) has no presence in these states. Akhilesh (Yadav of the Samajwadi Party) has fielded candidates, and AAP (Aam Aadmi Party) has also done so in some seats, but the fact of the matter is that the real, serious contest for forming the government is between the BJP and the Congress in three states, and the BRS and Congress in Telangana. For us, these are absolutely crucial, bread-and-butter elections — so to speak. These election results will not only strengthen the Congress party but also the INDIA alliance.

Related: Yogendra Yadav predicts landslide victory for Congress in Telangana

Q. Do you believe your guarantees are fiscally prudent or even implementable? A state like Karnataka, which was revenue surplus, is finding it a challenge to fund them. And Telangana’s finances are also in deficit and liabilities are high.

A. You need schemes, programmes, and guarantees because people are drowning under the burden of ever-increasing prices, growing unemployment, and rising income inequalities. I think it becomes a moral obligation to put the guarantees first and find the resources later. It is very easy to say this is my budget and this is the amount of money I have and this is what I am going to spend on. That is an accountant, bean-counting approach. But political parties that are sensitive to people’s concerns and needs have to be more than accountants and bean-counters. So the idea of guarantees was born.

They would not have been necessary if gas prices were coming down, cylinder prices were pegged at ₹500 or ₹600, or if the job situation was not as alarming as it is. In a state like Telangana, we have the highest youth unemployment rate of 15 percent compared to the national average of 10 percent. We wouldn’t have needed guarantees if all the investments that are coming to the state had not gone only to one small enclave around Nehru Outer Ring Road in the precincts of Hyderabad.

What is the background to these guarantees? These guarantees are basically modalities and instruments to ensure relief to crores of families, women, farmers, youth, senior citizens, and destitute persons because they are really struggling under the burden of price rise and unemployment. The job of the government is to find the resources. The job of a political party is to make the guarantees. Which is what we are doing in Karnataka. You have to recognise what people need and put that at the centre and core of your programme, and then find the resources.

The same questions were asked, I remember when MGNREGA was passed in 2006. We found the resources. We are spending ₹60-70,000 crore a year. The same was asked when the National Food Security Act was passed in 2013. Where will the country find ₹1.30 lakh crore? But the country found it. A country that is growing at seven percent per year surely can generate the resources in a manner that enables the fulfilment of these guarantees.

On the Road: Value of amorphous Christian community vote in Telangana

Q. There are women-centric schemes in your guarantees but you must acknowledge the lack of women or even Muslim leadership in your party, or for that matter few women candidates fielded this time.

A. In the last Uttar Pradesh elections we had 40 percent women candidates. We did make a conscious effort. Our then general secretary Priyanka Gandhi made that effort. It is true that in the states going to polls now, only between 12-15 percent of candidates are women. We cannot take consolation in the fact that other parties are on par or lower. That is not an excuse, but yes we need to develop leadership among women. Parliament has passed the law and the next general elections and the next round of Assembly polls will probably see 1/3rd reservation for women. Not just women, but leadership among weaker sections and marginalised people, too, needs to be developed. These are ongoing endeavours of a political party.

Could we have done better? Yeah, we could have, but at the same time, one has to recognise that leadership-building takes time. Identifying people, giving them opportunities, and making them winnable candidates. Ultimately political parties exist not just to put up candidates — some parties exist only for putting up candidates, but serious political parties exist for ensuring their victory too.

Q. There is an evident change in the Congress’s approach to issues and leaders. Take, for example, the whole ‘Panauti’ row. Similar personal attacks in the run-up to 2014 or 2019 elections — like chaiwallah and chowkidar — didn’t work in your favour. Does it not worry you that making personal remarks against a popular figure like Prime Minister Modi can backfire?

A. I would contest that statement. I am contesting his popularity. If he was as popular, he wouldn’t resort to defamation and insults and abuses that he hurls on his political opponents, Mr Rahul Gandhi included. I don’t see these as insults. If you bring out the personality characteristics of a person, I don’t see it as an insult. I see that as bringing the truth to the public. When I call the prime minister the “Jagadguru of Jhoot”, or pathological liar, I am not insulting him. I am bringing out the truth to the people. It is a fact. He is a pathological liar. When I say he suffers from a narcissistic personality disorder, I am bringing out the truth. As a communicator, I have to communicate what the truth is. And this is the truth. A lot of people see it. I am sorry to say, that this prime minister has been given too much of a free pass by the media and is being allowed to get away by saying a lot of nonsense about his opponents, and he should be called out. He is being called out.

On the Road: Reading the mood of Dalits, Muslims — will they hurt BRS?

Q. How has Mallikarjun Kharge’s election as AICC president changed things for Congress?

A. Mallikarjun Kharge taking over is a watershed moment in our political history. He brings extraordinary experience, he brings a great story of social empowerment and justice. Brings years of ministerial experience. He is a great poll campaigner. He is multilingual. He is a great asset. He is an inspirational figure and its a great moment for the Congress that a person like him got elected as AICC president.

Q. What is working for you in Telangana?

A. First of all, the situation today in Telangana is much different than what it was a year or 15 months ago. It was seen to be a BJP-BRS fight, with the Congress coming a distant third. That was the media-generated hype. Self-confidence was low, people were leaving us. But I think the Bharat Jodo Yatra was a decisive turning point. The Karnataka election was a decisive turning point, and people who left us are coming back, and those not with us are joining us. The BJP has sort of… if I were to use the prime minister’s own words that the Congress in Rajasthan will become Jhoo Mantar — the BJP has become that in Telangana. It has simply disappeared. Many things have gone right for us, starting with Bharat Jodo Yatra, followed by Karnataka, and also, in my view, a recognition by everyone in Telangana that a collective effort is needed. It is not an individual who is going to win the election for us, but a collective enterprise that is going to win it for us. Today that is what gives me the confidence that we will have the majority on 30 November.

On the Road: Poor outreach on guarantees mars Telangana Congress campaign

Q. Your senior leaders in Telangana publicly proclaim themselves to be the CM candidate.

A. These are natural. Everyone wants to be the frontrunner. There is a system in the Congress. We never announce our chief minister candidate before polls and even a great figure like Rajasekhar Reddy was not projected as CM face in 2004. In 2009, he was the chief minister already. We only did it in 2017, when Amarinder Singh was projected as chief minister. Anyway, he left the party subsequently. Our system is different. We have a collective leadership. We fight polls and get a majority. MLAs sit down, observers come from the high command, discussion is held, various factors are taken into account, and finally, a decision is made. That’s the way it should be. It has to be a consultative process, a participatory process where everybody is listened to and finally a decision is taken. Ambitions are natural. It is not the Congress practice to project a face.

Let me say that Indian elections are not about faces. We are a party-based democracy. Mr Modi may disagree, but the Constitution recognises parties for election. Individuals represent parties, but parties have symbols, manifestos, ideologies, and programmes, and we seek votes on behalf of the party. I don’t say these guarantees are one individual’s. These are Congress guarantees, whereas Mr Modi has made their’s Modi guarantees. This was not the case even when Vajpayee was prime minister. The degree of personalisation of politics that Modi has effected is extraordinary. Even when he goes to Rajasthan, Madhya Pradesh or Chhattisgarh, he says they are Modi guarantees, not BJP’s. That Congress will never do that.

Q. Do you look at three prominent Telugu parties in Andhra and Telangana that haven’t aligned with INDIA or NDA as potential partners given their prominence in the two states?

A. In the last nine years, all the three parties you mention — the TDP, BRS and YSRCP — have functioned basically as B teams of the BJP. They have danced to the tunes of the BJP. Whatever the BJP wants. They have supported them on their Bills, voting in Parliament… but in Indian politics, you can never say never. They are always places for compromise and if the Congress, along with INDIA, does form the government in 2024, I am sure a lot of political parties which are part of NDA formally or are supporting the NDA informally, may look for greener pastures.

I am not sure. One can’t say. I am not banking on it happening. The fact of the matter is, many regional parties… I make a general point as a student of Indian politics, many parties find it more convenient to ally with the power equation at the Centre. For example, this is I can say confidently if there is a Congress government at the Centre, all regional parties in the Northeast will become part of our alliance. All of them. In Kashmir, two parties already are part of INDIA. There is a certain logic — the greater the dependence that you have on the Centre, the greater is the probability that you will end up supporting whichever party is at the Centre. These three are neither with NDA nor INDIA. They will go with the winner.